Guest: Is left unanswered for. Yeah. No rule of law whatsoever. It's like a big jungle. Whoever can protect themselves are doing it. Many are selling and leaving. Escaping. Yeah. I don't think. I don't think the Palestinian state is an option anymore, to be honest with you. Yeah. You know, Israel's sorry, but they're. They've unleashed the devil on the West Bank. It's unsafe. It's crazy. I mean, the Israeli military invaded Bitor twice at least that night. Almost killed two young men who are just two young innocents leaving the gym very late at night. Yeah. It's just. It's at a place where it's like a volcano is just, like, ready to erupt in that sense. Poverty is at its highest. No tourism. You know, you have the whole region of Bethlehem with, like, no way. No way to survive financially. People are ready to leave, you know, since they know they have no future anymore. Israel will not allow us to have a future whatsoever.

Daniel: Yeah.

Guest: Unless Israel takes the region, which we've heard. I mean, you hear random. You hear more than. More than one rumor. You don't know what's real and what's not. Yeah. People are. People are ready for a solution, whatever that solution is. People are willing to leave if leaving is the only option now. Because right now, what. Witnessing Gaza, they see it's either you get killed or you leave. But then they're like, can they open the borders for us? Can they open channels for immigration for us? But they don't even have that, so they're like, I guess our only option is to die. The question is how? How will I die? How long can I last? Yep.

Daniel: When was the last time you were there?

Guest: (Before this last 2026 trip) Four years ago, Right after Covid. And people were still much more hopeful than this. Yeah.

Daniel: Remind me what years you lived there?

Guest: We moved. I was around 5, 6. It was 1991 or 1992, I think at the end of 1991, which was, like, right at the end of the first intifada. And I lived there up till 2004. That was the first part of my life. And then I went back in 2009. I lived in Jordan, but would keep working a lot with Palestinians and going back and forth. Got married in Palestine in 2012, settled there till 2015. I was. During those two, three years, I was between Bethlehem and Ramallah daily. And we moved here to the States, and ever since, we've just been going on trips back 2021, 2022. And this year, I was able to cross through 2026 in the last 11 years, three trips.

Daniel: A lot of. That's a lot of experience.

Guest: Yeah.

Daniel: What is it in your mind that has the two states or it's another state dead now versus before,

Guest: For us Palestinians, the, the reality on the ground never reflected treaty promises. So although the world was seeing Palestine, Israel conflict on paper of where it's heading, as if it's heading towards that two state solution, that was never the reality on the ground for us. Like we already knew that's never going to happen in a sense and now it's more clear. Israel never intended to allow a second Palestinian, you know, a Palestinian state and majority of Palestinian decisions of their leaders. And because of the split in leadership, it has also worked on not having an Israeli state. So they never really worked together towards it. Like we understood that that's never going to happen and it's just more clear. I don't think there was ever a possibility ever. Although Palestinians worked on building like a part of the leadership which is, you know, Fateh, which signed Oslo was working towards building a Palestinian state, but we always had the other sects who worked against all that while being funded by the Israeli side. Yeah, I don't know. It's the same. You don't have a united Palestinian front at all. It's more, more split now entering the Western pro Palestinian movement. And I don't know, I don't know. Israel is so strong. Military, you know, weapons. Palestinians are destroyed as a, as a, as a group of people. They are shattered, they are little pieces and it's. How many can you put together again? I don't, I don't think there's any glue that would work. Only hope is human survival. I, I can the Palestinians survive this campaign? You know, the genocide didn't end. The iron sword is still slicing away.

Daniel: Yep.

Guest: Yeah. A two state solution on the ground, there's no possibility for it. There might be some paperwork that could be done but it's, it doesn't change the geography. Yeah, yeah.

Daniel: I never thought that that was a reality.

Guest: Yeah, it's not. It was never a goal.

Daniel: No.

Guest: So if it was any part, any side's goal, we would have at least come felt closer to it every year. But instead we feel further and further away from it, you know, every month, every week now, every day with the likes of Ben Gvir and plans like the E1 plan and such, the internal Palestinian corruption and division. I don't know, it's.

Daniel: Yeah, yeah. I'm sorry you're experiencing this and processing all of it.

Guest: Thank you. Yeah, it's sad. It's very sad. It's so sad. This land had so much potential. All the people had so much potential. But the people, when people don't. Don't understand the power they wield within, you know, you can only explain so much. You can't comprehend things for people. But yeah, I don't mean to be defeated, but it's on. On reality is a defeat. After this, it's all about, again, human survival. How can he help these group of people survive until a solution is found on an international scale? And what people need is an economy. People need a way to make a living under whatever government umbrella there is going to be. We don't know which one is going to prevail. But the people remain. Their needs remain that like, you know, the unchangeable. Yeah, yeah.

Daniel: Well, I think, I mean, the reality is that the system is designed that there's never going to be anything feasible. All the people are bought and sold. And the infighting, it's supposed to create the situation where it's impossible to unify.

Guest: Yeah.

Daniel: Which was always. Yeah, always the design.

Guest: Yeah, it's always designed. That's true. And people don't realize how much of the design they follow. Willingly thinking it's out of their own. Well,

Daniel: Yeah, well, on both sides. Right. Like the Israelis can then use the Palestinian Authority as like some sort of entity that has any meaning. It's the exact opposite thing of what they think it is. And then, and then you could point to them and blame them.

Guest: Yeah.

Daniel: So what do you, what are you thinking about doing?

Guest: A lot. I'm thinking about being a voice for what Palestinians are scared to say. Palestinians are scared. They are even scared to like a post, share a post. This fear, the fear of what happened to Gaza is going to happen to us. The fear after living for 40 years under two occupations, fear of even hoping. The fear of even trying. People are. They just want a solution. We don't want. The Western pro Palestine movement, constant discussion of. What's the word for it? Nuance. And arguing things over and over again, things that we've already argued, things we've already explained, you know, as if Palestinians are just sitting there waiting for the validation. No, we don't. We don't. We're not waiting for a validation. We're waiting for the stop of the bombs, the stop of the pogroms, the stop of, of the destruction and the genocide of our people. Just stop it. Not, not just argue things. Just, just a bunch of arguments online, back and forth, back and forth. None of it has produced anything that is in any way personally affecting the people's lives on, on, you know, in reality. Yeah. Only saying this, like this is the first time I'm saying a lot of this out loud the first time. So I'm kind of processing this conversation,

Daniel: I'm with you.

Guest: Yeah. I believe the streets are a reflection of the people. And when streets are full of trash, trash, trash everywhere trash, where even the most educated person doesn't care anymore. There's, there's no spirit. The spirits are not moving. The spirits are still hurting, scared, trapped. One, One guy told me, I'm a prisoner who pays to survive this prison. I labor every day to be able to pay my way to survive this big prison. I don't work to build or create. I work to survive. I don't, I don't think the west understands what Palestinians are going through. Yeah. And so I, I need to get this out and I don't know, I try to convince people to do interviews and things like that. People are scared. They, they wouldn't even talk to me. Not even a recording in us. No. In a sound, a voice.

Daniel: Like Palestinians?

Guest: Yes. Yes. Anybody who doesn't, who doesn't. Whose opinion and feelings will not fit the narrative that's so loud right now, are terrified. They're terrified by everybody. They're terrified by the Palestinian Authority, they're terrified by the Israelis. They're terrified by the world. The, the, the Western pro Palestine movement is even scaring Palestinian voices because they're just seeing the world as black and white Israel, completely evil Jewish people, evil Palestinians, poor, sad victims. And. They don't understand how the consequences of how they act and speak for Palestine ends up being a collective punishment onto Palestinians.

Daniel: What would you correct there? What would you say to that?

Guest: I say and I, I've said it before. Zionism is a reaction to Western actions. For the Jewish people to have to like after rejecting the idea of Zionism for so long, having to accept it, having to embrace it, having to brainwash your children with. Was caused by the experience, the experience of the Jewish people for the past 2,000 years in the west, and then it was brought and projected onto the East. And it's not just Palestinians who have suffered from Western ideologies. And instead of the west screaming and trying to pinpoint everything onto the Israeli people, it is time to reflect onto themselves. Clean house and stop trying to correct Palestinians. If Palestinians don't want to continue unarmed resistance. You don't get to tell us that. We must. You don't get to tell us how. How we want to move on. We didn't scream for. For support for you to take over our voices. We screamed for support for you to go back to your governments and stop the funding of the weapon machine, of the. Of the big monster, the bombs, the drones, the surveillance. Before Americans even point fingers to Zionists, they need to point fingers to their own government who funded all the technology and the weapons and.

Daniel: Well, and buys them.

Guest: Buys them. They fund them. They fund the research. No, no. Doesn't matter if it was created by a smart Jewish man or woman. You know, the funding, the. The money that went in it, the support that went in it, it didn't just go to benefit the Israelis. It's not that Israelis are the only ones using this tech and these weapons on Palestinians. It ends up being mass produced to everybody.

Daniel: Yeah.

Guest: And. And on the reality on the ground, them trying to. I mean, they're all falling for evangelical Zionism. You know, they've. They're engineering a big, huge war that's gonna destroy all of us by generating all this hate. Yes, I am anti Zionism. Yes, I am against this Israeli government. I am not against the Jewish people. I am not against the Israelis. I'm not even against the Israeli identity. I understand. I understand that. I understand how people see themselves as Chaldeans, Assurance, Kurds, Arab, Muslim, white even. I understand why someone would even call themselves white. We need to understand the science of our brains. This is just our brain trying to make sense of our world. What's tall, what's short, what's big, what's small, what's light in color, what's dark. And then, you know, associating behaviors to skin color, associating ideas and behaviors and actions to a race. We need to understand ourselves as human beings on an individual level, because we are. We have our eyes open now. The. The. The way our world is operating is genocidal on all scales in all places. It's starting in Palestine. It's there in Ukraine, in Russia. It's everywhere. It's in Sudan, it's in Congo. It's in all kinds of places. It's not just in Palestine.

Daniel: Yeah, I mean, it's also. It's a global apartheid system. Good luck. If you were born in the Congo, then you'll see. Then you'll know what global apartheid looks like.

Guest: Correct. This hyper focus on Israelis and Zionism as if they are the root cause of all the World problems is just another time where humans are trying to blame one group of people for all our shitty, you know, self.

Daniel: It's the ultimate anti Semitic trick that they, that was played by the system. It's brilliant.

Guest: Mm. And it's in. Yeah.

Daniel: By getting them to be guilty of it. That's the, like, that's the even more dangerous part.

Guest: Yes, yes. And the Jewish people fell for it. They fell for it.

Daniel: They fell for it.

Guest: And, and Palestinians fell for anti Semitism. And they did, they did through, through the education system. You know, they brought in this, this Islamist education that does not represent Palestinians. And when you bring things to ignorant people, they don't realize what they're learning, what they're teaching and what, how their society is being engineered. They also fell for it.

Daniel: Where do you think that comes from? Like, what's the system source of that? Is it a coincidence? Is Israel involved? I mean, my, My intuition is Israel's always involved.

Guest: Yes, Israel's. Israel is involved. The, the, the Israeli Zionist leaders have paths planned a lot. You know, nothing, nothing is by chance. But they understood. They understood their enemy. Palestinians are more emotional, react, reactive in a sense. Zionist leaders are calculated. They understood how they can steer a society to a certain way, you know, to avoid what happened during the first intifada. This is not the first time the international community understood what Zionism is. They understood that during the first intifada. They understood what it meant to be a Palestinian, what it meant to be, you know, for civil obedience. Why, what, what drives a human being to intifado. They saw it, they understood it. And Israel was failing. Their Zionist dreams would fail. They need the Palestinian anti Semite monster. It is needed. So they created it. And the society was ignorant, emotional, reacts, doesn't act. Not saying that the whole Palestinian society was void of thinkers and intellect. No, they were there, but they weren't the loud, strong voice and most of the time they were assassinated. You know, if you go to a Palestinian now, I think they're more aware, but it feels like it's too late.

Daniel: You think there is more awareness on the Palestinian side now?

Guest: Not enough. But there is, there is some awareness where we were tricked. We were engineered to behave and speak in a certain way that fit a newly created Zionist narrative that, you know, was being spread around all over the world. And there was a reason why the west believed Zionism to be something completely different. It is the strength of the Zionist narratives. They have multiple hasbaras, multiple ones, if you speak and I have multiple Examples if you speak with a pro Zionist or a Zionist and an Israel high kind of person online you would see the different hasbaras they would keep. They, you know, keep what's the word? Moving the post in a way or changing the subject using a different excuse depending on what you're saying. And in the end, in the end, the final, the final thing comes down to Jewish were done being killed. We wanted to return to ancestral home and build our nation. And it would have. It's to be done with every possible way. Nothing, nothing should stand in the way. Not even morals, not even God's given scripture, anything to prevent the death of the Jewish people. That is the last thing that, that's the last fight, like the last argument that would come after trying to justify everything this is. Nobody has a right to a land that they were born on. One told me there was a war that Israel didn't start. That's how they see it. Israel didn't start it and they won it. You should just get over it. Yeah, I don't know. What I have been thinking about lately is how much do Palestinians know about the other and we don't know about the other. Who is the other? We only know what we. What fits our narrative too. Zionists came to occupy us for the West. We don't even think about it for the Jewish people because to us the Jewish people were living with us. We were one people. So it wasn't about Jewish survivor survival for us. It was about Jewish dominance. And nobody wants someone to dominate over them. That's like any normal human being would reject that. And we thought everybody would understand that. But we didn't know that people understood something completely different. They don't educate Palestinians on what Zionism is and the tools that Zionism uses for that dominance.

Daniel: You mean in terms of how it's indoctrinating people?

Guest: Yes. How. Yes.

Daniel: That the people across from you are why they are actually doing this?

Guest: Yes. I didn't. We didn't understand why the Jewish people were doing this and we did not know the Zionist Zionist leaders or the Zionist machine tools and narratives. We knew of some, not everything. We didn't know the wide and extent their reach. We didn't know how hard they work for this. We always saw the, the cause. So, so basic, so simple and we use the simplest terminology to describe it. So every time we would call a Zionist a Jew, a Yahood, that word would trigger all the, the. The narrative of us being anti Semitic, as if our issue with them is because they are yahud. But that was the only word we knew to describe the other because the other told us we are yahood.

Daniel: I mean, it's very. It's very clever how that happened and what. What happens at a deeper level with that substitution. Because it's not that it's wrong either. Right? That's the. That's the point.

Guest: Not wrong. I'm not at wrong. I never thought I was that wrong. But then the way I spoke was used in a way to prove that narrative while I was so ignorant, so innocent and ignorant and unaware of how calling them Yahood in another context, another world was considered. Was being considered anti Semitic, which led to why is the world not listening to us like we're saying something very basic, very simple. Why. Why is it not making sense in the West? Is the west that evil? You know, only to find out that it's. It was, you know, manufactured in that way. You know, look at them. They call us Yahood. Yahood. Yahood. They're very anti Semitic. They hate us because we're Yahood. They. They don't want a country. They just want to kill us because we're the Yahoo. Look, look what they did on October 7th. They attacked the yahood. You know, and then they go to a clip of a Palestinian saying, you know, cussing the yahood, you know, or God, may God. What's the word? Damn the yahoo. You know, for a Westerner hearing the Palestinians speak that way, it's going to confirm what they've been told. Palestinians are anti Semitic. And this is. This. This has been in operation for at least four decades. Once the first intifada didn't work out. Like, not didn't work out, but was, you know, was. Was very successful for the Palestinian people. It's like, okay, we need to change the Palestinian people. They can't be. They can't have a collective spirit where they would start their own kibbutz in their own little villages and get cows to give everybody milk or demand taxation with representation. You know, that was the intifada. This is what the intifada was. It was about rejecting taxes because we were not represented in this government that we were occupied by. That whole cause changed by the time the second intifada came, became this Islamic cause. The Muslim Palestinians against the Yahud because they came to Al Aqsa to pray in Al Aqsa. Well, the Yahud have the right to pray in Al Aqsa because of the wailing wall, you know, while the Palestinians are on their side. They're only upset because this is our place. And you're even coming onto our place to show your dominant domination in our own house of worship. And we now, the Muslims in the Yahoo, they're going to fight to show who's the rightful group by the same God, by the same Allah. Because in this, the Islam as a belief is that God brought a new book. That's the truth that cannot be corrupted. That is the same scripture that was given to all the Jewish prophets. So, and then it turned from a Palestinian cause, from being a humanitarian cause, equality for everybody, not an ethnic government, Religious government that it should be for everybody. It became first the Arab Muslim cause to fight, you know, to protect a Arab Muslim land. And that, that wasn't the Palestinian cause of my grandfather or my father. And it was. It was engineered through education systems, through the media, through the actual Palestinian Authority that signed Oslo and was brought in to govern the people, the Palestinian people. And it engineered everything towards that, that theme, Muslim versus Jew. And now the Palestinians are like, but that was never our cause. It's not who we are. How did the world come to. To think it's that way? And then you show them what they've said and how they've treated the cause, and they're like, oh, okay. That they never really realized it while they were saying it and doing it. They didn't realize. What they've been engineered to say and do. Some still don't. Some still think this is like a Salahideen war still going on and that their true enemy is not even the Jewish people. It's England and Rome. Yeah. All right, enough clapping on my part. Sorry.

Daniel: No, it's brilliant. I mean, what you're describing is obviously a form of incredibly radical accountability and very necessary. I'd love. How do you reconcile this accountability with the reality of the occupation? So I understand if you can understand Zionists and Jewish people and where they come from and how this works. Right. This is multi generational, very sophisticated indoctrination. Great. Right. You understand all of that. And then you can understand, okay, given that I know what's standing across from me, just because I understand them. Right? So I can. The fact that you have this realization or awareness or accountability, how does that change the reality of asymmetrical power? There's still an occupation. And whether or not we understand Zionist brainwashing doesn't actually change the fact that there is this plan to like, to cleanse and to genocide. So this is great. But what does this actually do?

Guest: Well, reminds me of something I've heard in Therapy, although I know that my, what my parents did was wrong, was abuse or trauma to me, even though I understand them and I understand where they came from and all of that doesn't excuse what they've done. And although I understand Zionism and the plight of the Jewish people, does not excuse the policies and the actions, does not excuse the occupation, it does not excuse the colonization, does not excuse the apartheid, the ethnic cleansing, not even the genocide. And I say this to too many, I argue with Zionists, I do that. I say it to many of them. Nothing, nothing you are saying right now, nothing that we are discussing back and forth will excuse the death of Palestinians. Nothing justifies this, not October 7, not 1929, not the Holocaust. Nothing excuses the actions. Whether you are religious or secular, we as humans need to agree on, you know, some moral code. We don't agree on one, but there are a few, few that we agree on. And we, we have to sit there and look at it. Just because I was a victim one day doesn't mean I have the right to victimize others. And although Palestinians have fell prey to their ignorance and to the engineering that was happening to them, does not excuse their actions and their behavior either. We can't keep going back and forth and who is right and who is wrong, who started this and who didn't, why we did this or why we didn't do today in 2026, it does not matter. The job right now is to stop the killing of human beings. Keep the restrictions, don't uplift the siege, stop the killing, stop it all around, Stop the bombing all around. That is your job as a human being, whether you are Jewish or Palestinian or in the West. The duty we have as humans is to stop the bombs. Everything else could be talked about, but for the past three years we've just been talking and discussing. Without the actual action to stop the bombs, it doesn't matter if it's a genocide or not. Stop the bombs. It doesn't matter if you're, this is your ancestral homeland. Stop the bombs. It doesn't matter the neck that happened. Stop the bombs. We're at a level where discussions and talks don't matter. The bombs must be stopped. The killing must be stopped. Once the bombs are done and people are saved, we need to find a completely different solution. Israel is not surviving this. It will not survive it the way it is. The next elections, if it, if it elects another fascist far right government, it will be the end of Israel. Evangelical Christian Zionists will win. They will win. They have engineered a War to make people believe in their Bible, to make people believe in their own faith. And humans, they are ignorant. If this continues and this ultimate war happens, people will be indoctrinated again to have a certain belief and it's only going to cause more death, more war. I don't know what level of war they are aiming at, but it looks like it's the ending of the civilizations, of everything as we know it. That is, that is the enemy. The people who think they can engineer wars to prove their scripture, to be able to brainwash the masses, to continue to have power on Earth. This isn't the first time that humanity have been through this. We've been through this. This is why we keep unearthing different civilizations and different human remains from dates longer than our Torah. You know, there's. This is not the first time we've reached this point and we have to stop and look and find human solutions that could free us all. No one is free until we are all free. Palestinians will not be free if the Jewish people are not free from Zionism. The Palestinians will not be free as long as a Jew believes that a Palestinian existence is a threat to their life. Because if a Palestinian person thinks that if a Jewish person exists means a, a a threat to their life, they will also kill Jewish people. But we haven't reached that level. We still don't see them all as like they have to be killed for us to survive while the Jewish people see that Palestinians have to be killed for the Jewish people to survive. And that is dangerous. And the Palestinians will eventually get to that mentality too. That will be, that will be the result of this genocide. We will not be able to tell a person from Gaza if they saw a Jewish person in front of them not to kill them. We won't be able to do that. We won't be able to stop them after everything they have witnessed. You will not be able to convince a person who have seen the carnage online that a Jewish person does not deserve death. When Israel is consistently and its allies insisting that Zionism means Jewish people, that Israel means Jewish people, and that if you criticize it then you're an anti Semite. This is the way the people, the human brain are being engineered towards this ultimate hate is what scares me. It's extreme, extremely scary. And it's heading that way. We see it, we've seen it before. It's heading that way, nowhere else. It's starting in America. When they say America looks like Germany. It sure does. It's heading that way.

Daniel: Say that again, I said it completely is. It is down to the symbols, down to everything. It's just a more sophisticated version. It always has a different flavor. That's the point. That's how it tricks you. Just because people aren't, you know, speaking in like, posh, sharp accents or like very organized with their calendars, doesn't. That's. That's how they trick you. Same symbols, same mind control. It went from physical warfare to spiritual warfare. It's just. It just keeps getting deeper. It doesn't change.

Guest: No, it is. It's at the ultimate sophistication level, I believe, just how you said they are. They are trying to prove to the world that everything they ever heard about the Jewish people is correct.

Daniel: Yep. And that's why.

Guest: That's why they're putting actions on Palestinians.

Daniel: Well, and not only there. Right. It's the Jewish involvement in all aspects of this system. Right. Media, banking, that's all. That's. We can't ignore that. Right. But. But it's not them either because they're always deeper layers. The question is who you put at the front in order to create a system that uses the fuel to move itself. And so of course, the. Of course you have the natural trope in all aspects of it. And then the cherry on top is actually causing them to commit the genocide. And then that's the. The ultimate proof when, again, when all these countries have genocided even more people and caused even more carnage.

Guest: Right.

Daniel: It's not that Israel is even the ultimate evil in terms of what it's doing.

Guest: It's true.

Daniel: I think, to me, it's the ultimate mirror or manifestation of what's happening. But it's. It's not the worst carnage that's been unleashed in the world in the past 20, 40, 60, 80 years, including by other Arab countries or Muslim countries that have unleashed carnage on one another. Right. People love to. Right. That's why you can't ignore that. Right. I speak from deconstructing it from one perspective, but that's half the picture. Right. Because if you're. One side is deconstructing it and the other side isn't deconstructing it, it's not actually going to lead anywhere. The whole point is to take radical accountability and for both sides to understand each other in that. In that process.

Guest: That's true. Yeah.

Daniel: So what are your. What are your real fears in terms of. Or what do you think? What is. What is talking about it look like? What does collaborating look like? What are your fears?

Guest: Fears of me speaking up in any way is fear for the life of my people, my. My daughters, their life, their safety. My husband, his family, my parents, my brothers, my sister. You know, I was thinking about at least not having my face. Public in any way, but I don't think that's. I don't know. I don't. I don't know how to protect myself in the online climate that we are in. Me personally, I'm. I'm not afraid of anything at all, not even death. But I can't put that onto others. I can't put them in that position when they are not ready for it.

Daniel: Who do you think they need to afraid of?

Guest: be afraid of, huh?

Daniel: Who do you think would hurt them? What actor

Guest: who would hurt them? Palestinians could hurt them. The Israelis can definitely hurt them. They just, you know, people, once you put yourself out there, people are gonna expose all of you, and all of me is a lot of people. And that's, That's. I just. Again, I. I don't have their consent to put them in that position, and I can't have my identity to connect it to anybody. So I would need a fake identity, like a protective identity where I could fully speak up and act and not feel like I'm caged in, but at the same time not bring them in with me to that, you know, the, the front of. Of this, because this is. This is me coming from under rebels. Saying something and, And I want to say stuff that Palestinians will never dare to say to their own selves. They will never, you know, they. They won't radically hold themselves accountable for anything either. Just how Zionist won't. It's. It's the same on both sides. Any accountability for humans is very hard at all levels, even at personal levels. So, I mean, I've lost so many friends just by, you know, speaking up. In certain small circles, you can't deviate from what is deemed acceptable. You can't have an opinion that is out of the circle of what they deemed. Correct. True. Acceptable.

Daniel: Well, I know a lot about that.

Guest: Yes. You understand that?

Daniel: Yeah. Well, it's really important for people to hear how it works on the other side too.

Guest: Yeah, I want to hear more from the others. I want to ask questions. And by the others, the other side, you know, we're not even. We're not allowed to have conversations with the other side. Oh, normalization, Normalization. What does that mean? To normalize a human being on the other side? So I. I have questions, I have things I want to say. I want. I want them to meet the Palestinians. I Want the humans to meet. I want to break the wall, that apartheid wall, I want to break. I want to blow it up. I want people to think, people are scared of thinking. I want people to seek answers. I want people to read. I want people to understand that they can't inherit their faith and their political ideologies. And you can't do that. Not because you're, you end up being a threat to someone else. You're also a threat to your own self and you don't even know it. So I want, I want to do something that would do that. This is why I started writing. This is why I have conversations with a lot of people. I'm building projects that, you know, can hopefully uplift people and bring hope again to the land. I want to be allowed Palestinian voice. I want to take control of my story. I'm sick and tired of people speaking for me or describing what a Palestinian is or does or thinks or feels from what they read or watched. So on an individual level, not just on, you know, Palestinian level, I want to take control of my destiny. I'm sick and tired of Palestinian Authority or the resistance groups having control over my destiny as a human being from that land. I want to be in charge and I believe that's what everybody wants. Self determination, right? I want people to understand what does that mean? What does it mean to have self determination? Can you only have it when you end up with a Palestinian state or an Israeli state? Is that the only way for a Jew or a Palestinian to have self determination is to have no religious states?

Daniel: No, because we're moving past the idea of a state because the justification for a Palestinian state is the same justification that justified the Jewish state. So if the, if the Palestinians have a right to a state, they have a right to do exactly what Israel did. That's Israel's fear. So it could never allow this to happen. Because Israel's justification for any part of the land is its justification for the whole land. It's the logic, it's the only logical conclusion of this, of this project, right? So to justify the claim for a Palestinian state is you're justifying the same thing and it's a loop. And so Israel could never fundamentally allow that. So this is going to break down the idea of a state, period. Nationalism is dying. Imperialism, colonialism, capitalism, all the isms are being put to the test and I think are going to break because it's all, it's collapsing. So it can, it's not going to be a state, it's going to Be the next evolution. What does beyond states mean? What does it mean? And you talk a lot about this, right? What does it mean to share land? What does that actually mean?

Guest: What does it mean?

Daniel: What does it look like?

Guest: The people understand that there's another option.

Daniel: Yeah. That's beyond the very limited understanding of how this works. What are borders?

Guest: Yeah. To us in the east, it's a line drawn by a pen on a map drawn by the West. That's what borders are to us. We didn't, we didn't know borders before that. You know, these lines. And people now are convinced with them of them. Jordan first, Lebanon first, Syria first, Israel first. I feel like a lot of the isms would end in the west because the west is at a different level of awakening, while in the east it's, it's beginning to thrive. It's at its like, birth era. And they're accepting it. They're at a time of accepting it.

Daniel: Accepting the imperialism,

Guest: accepting capitalism. Yeah, accepting imperialism. I believe so. Yes. Looking at the Emirates and what they're doing.

Daniel: Yeah, they're all totally bought into this thing at the, at the political level. That's why they don't do anything, even society level.

Guest: But they're, they're, they're deep down the rabbit hole of consumerism, online influence, you know, social media, marketing. It's all boost, boost, like booming. And it's what matters. Making. What do Americans say? Getting the bag. Yeah.

Daniel: Are there any states that you would say are not on board with that, that don't suffer from their own identical reflective catastrophe?

Guest: No, no, everybody. I mean, if I want to talk about the Arab world, the whole Middle east, there are movements right now coming up that is dividing people into smaller groups, more and more, reviving. I believe it's a, you know, a Zionist, part of the Zionist propaganda, reviving tribalist ideas. Oh, look, how much did the Arab Muslim empire erase? Revive yourself. You're not an Arab, You're Egyptian, you're not an Arab. You know, you're a Phoenician. And so that's also identity crisis. Yeah. But yeah, the isms are starting, revived, booming. The Arab world has. Even Hollywood has moved to the Arab world. The Hollywood stars are all there. If you open on an Arab like a Jordanian tv, you'll find many celebrities promoting Arab brands down to food. It feels like this power is leaving the USA and moving there. And it was allowed to come in through the Arab Muslim center to Saudi Arabia and Kuwait and Qatar and Emirates, the real Arab Muslims. While here people are, you know, Woke. They see the harm of this power that has been here and they're fighting against it. And this power to them has a face, a name and a religion and an ethnicity which is Jewish. It's not really Jewish. But this is the marketing, the face of it.

Daniel: Well, and the flip side is everything that you're describing on the other side is a face that the Zionists can point at too justify and rightfully so.

Guest: Explain.

Daniel: Well, look at. In the same way that they can say, look at the Jews. Right. We can now completely dismantle what's happening in the Arab worlds, and they're in the Arab world or the Muslim world. And their collaboration with all of these powers mass is whatever it is. It's the same imperial conquest, weapons, surveillance, capitalists, states that can make noise about Israel, but they're not fundamentally, are they good? No. Right. And so the Zionists can say, look who you're. Who are you defending these countries are these countries that we should say, oh, yeah, let's give. Let's give all these countries more power to. To rule the world or the Middle East? Because we wouldn't want that. We wouldn't want to live in those kinds of societies either, that have been taken over. So there's truth to that. We're gonna hand over the Zionist project to the likes of Saudi Arabia or any country that we actually fundamentally wouldn't want to live in. I think the system engineers this. So it's so clever. Right. Like, you wouldn't want to live under Hamas, right?

Guest: No. Yeah.

Daniel: You wouldn't want to live under them, but at the same time, it engineers it that you have to either decide that you're pro or against something that you wouldn't actually want to live under. Same thing goes for Iran is another good example of how they do this. Right. It is what it is.

Guest: Yeah.

Daniel: I don't know how much of it is a part of the game or not or at what level, but, you know, it's still a part of this thing. And, you know, would you want to live in that country? I mean, maybe compared to other countries, but it's not some sort of prime example. But then you're forced to decide whether or not you're with the ayatollah or against the ayatollah, when that's not really the question.

Guest: Yeah, well, I will. It's the way politics have always connected the people with its government. It's part of dehumanizing the people. They dehumanize Palestinians because, oh, you don't want to live under Hamas, right. They dehumanize the Houthis, the Yemenis because of the Houthis. They dehumanized the Syrian people because of Assad. You know, because the west didn't understand that the people under these regimes don't really have power. They don't even have the awareness of having the power. These are societies that have long lived under empires and the rules.

Daniel: Well, this is an ancient system, right. Of having you keep grasping to perpetuate the very system, and then it seems as if you're moving, advancing materially, but you're actually becoming more enslaved.

Guest: Yes.

Daniel: Yeah, we. Look, we have more things. We've never been bigger slaves before in our lives. Again, what Palestine is reflecting, right? This is what I always try to tell people that you are. We are not free and you're. Somebody's always going to be next to this system, the system of surveillance, of totalitarianism, of capital. We are slaves. Try not working for a month and see what happens to your life.
Guest: Yeah, yeah. We are slaves now with no knowledge.

Daniel: Yeah. But we do have the knowledge. We're just in denial. Complete and total denial. Right. Because if we admitted that if we didn't work for a month, we'd see who our slave owners are, then it's better to be in comfortable denial and show your papers and pay your things and trade away all of your labor for. For this thing while it systematically strips you away of more and more and more and more. But it's better to be in denial or yell at Israel or Zionism.

Guest: Oh,

Daniel: and for me, like, the great. For me, one of the things that, you know, when I think about Palestinians, right, And the gratitude that I have to the Palestinians as a people, as an idea, like beyond everything that we're talking about here, is that it posed this reflection to me that, like you said, shows me how we're all slaves and how our liberation is connected. That was the whole point. Not to demonize my own people, but to understand that we are in a joint struggle.

Guest: Yeah, but we are. We are made blind to it because we need to be fighting one another, not working together.